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the_dala at 12:23am on 28/04/2007 under meta: pirates of the caribbean
the_dala at 12:23am on 28/04/2007 under meta: pirates of the caribbeanOkay, so I didn't get to the 5 things requests, but I did work out some meta that's been floating around in my head for awhile. First, a disclaimer . I don't mean this as a ship manifesto. If you've spent any time on this LJ, you know I've written a wide variety, and I've never considered myself OTP about any of them. But I feel the need to refute an argument I see popping up in favor of a Jack/Elizabeth relationship: that Will and Elizabeth at the least don't understand each other (and this is mostly Will doesn't "get" Elizabeth), and at most Will would not accept her for who she is (the "'Elp! 'Elp! I'm bein' oppressed!" angle). I am by no means attributing this argument to all Jack/Elizabeth shippers, and I don't mean to single anyone out; it's literally something I've seen popping up over and over for months now, and I simply do not see it in canon.
Firstly, CoBP. Part of Will's character development in the film is how he takes Elizabeth down from the pedestal he has put her on throughout his youth. His utter belief in the reality of their social differences is evident in the "How many times must I ask you to call me Elizabeth?"/"At least once more, as always, Miss Swann." This Will is never going to make use of the opportune moment, because he will never believe his feelings for a woman so much higher on the social food chain are valid. It takes the shaking of his foundations -- that the law always does what is good and right, that people are what they're born and not what they make of themselves, that a pirate is a pirate is a pirate -- for him to be able to stand on equal footing with her. That process isn't complete until the end, but even so you can see the changes happening onscreen, particularly with how he interacts with Elizabeth.
One scene I'd like to cite is during the battle between the Pearl and the Interceptor, when Anamaria suggests offering Elizabeth as a hostage. She even holds a gun to her head, as Jack did in the dock scene. But Will doesn't go to the "You threatened Miss Swann! I keel you with my sword!" place at all; he just deals with the problem at hand. Granted, that's a lot of problem to deal with and distract him, but I still think it's a significant exchange. Elizabeth isn't the Governor's Daughter at that moment; she's just another member of the crew, a comrade in arms (who immediately understands what he means when he says "She's not what they're after," and there's no way he has any doubts over her intelligence and resourcefulness after this scene).
Near the end, when Will has made his peace with Jack being a pirate and a good man as well as with what that means for Will himself, there's no trace of supplication or awe (or arrogance) in his declaration of love. He just says it, because she ought to know no matter what happens, and does his thing. When Elizabeth finds her place standing beside him, there's this little sidelong considering glance he gives her, which is actually one of my favorite character moments and a really nice bit of acting from Orlando Bloom. He's not relieved she's declared her loyalty; he's not smug that she is taking her chances with him rather than Norrington. He merely seems to be thinking, "Okay. So this is where we stand -- together." Also, I think it's worth pointing out that once again Elizabeth has a weapon pointed at her -- lots of them, in fact -- and once again Will doesn't freak out over it like Swann does (but he's her daddy, that's to be understood).
To me, this is not a man who treats the woman he loves like a porcelain doll or any less capable of intelligent thought and physical bravery than a man would be. Their camaraderie in danger/action/battle is consistent in DMC as well; in fact Will doesn't seem the least bit surprised that Elizabeth has broken out of jail when he sees her abandoned dress, nor does he later make any mention of the danger she put herself in by doing so (yeah, she felt she had to when her father tried to ship her off to England, but Will doesn't know that). Later, in the beach fight scene, I actually sort of read Elizabeth jumping behind Will and him sticking out his arm (I think; Liz borrowed my DVD so I can't double-check it) the same way I read Jack and Will back to back at the end of CoBP: an expression of solidarity, not him trying to defend her (although I wouldn't blame him in that particular instance, because he's just taken the only weapon they have to share between them). And when he tells her to guard the chest -- there's no reason for him to think that this solidarity established between them has been broken, and notice that none of the other men pay attention to her protests either. It's Will taking Elizabeth for granted, but in the way you'd take somebody you trusted to watch your back for granted.
And before I forget to mention it -- he does bloody well teach her to fight with a sword. That sounds pretty enlightened to me. Taking the tangent of gender, it's not like Jack was raised by Amazons (we can reasonably assume); in all likelihood he comes from the same social structure as Will. Jack has more life experience in general and, we can assume by his acquaintance with Anamaria and Tia Dalma, more experience with women who defy the system -- but Will, being working class, may have a more egalitarian take on the sexes simply because he comes from a social strata in which women labor, even if it isn't the same as men. I mean more so than a man of Elizabeth's class, not more than Jack. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that to assume Jack doesn't judge Elizabeth based on her status as a woman is not to assume that Will does.
As for the slightly more valid angle that Will doesn't really understand Elizabeth, I would point out that Elizabeth doesn't understand Elizabeth at this point, and that's a primary impetus of the plot. It's completely unfair to assume that, once she does get who she is and how she feels about that sussed out, Will would try to make her into some other kind of woman. He might be disturbed and upset and confused, I'm not denying that, but there's no evidence in their prior interaction that would suggest he'd suppress her nature. I do think Elizabeth might be conflating her fears about what she'd give up in a society marriage with her impression of how a man would treat a wife, but it's still mostly about the bigger picture rather than Will's actual behavior toward her. The whole reflected self or whatever it was in Social Interaction -- her idea of what his idea of her may not match up with his actual idea of her. I don't think this is an insurmountable degree of miscommunication; could be that being on her own and/or around Jack has exacerbated the anxieties she wasn't fully aware of in Port Royal, so they really had no opportunity to discuss what they both want before the events of DMC. They may be young and they may be crossing signals -- especially since Will doesn't know the details of what happened in those last moments on the Pearl -- but that's no reason to think they are incapable of coming to an understanding. The commonality of Jack and Elizabeth's personalities simply means these connections are easier for Jack to make.
Um, I sort of lost my conclusion. I feel like I had several more point cooking, but they're gone now. I suppose my bottom line is that whatever you ship, A being true does not mean B is false. Just because Jack appears to respect Elizabeth and approve of her piratical nature -- even when its consequences are to his detriment -- doesn't mean Will will turn from her . And their screentime together -- Elizabeth's canon attraction to and feelings for Jack, her obvious discontent -- do not negate her feelings for Will. If you feel that Jack and Elizabeth work better together -- if their interaction and character dynamics ping you -- that's totally fine; but it does not mean that, canonically, Will and Elizabeth are incompatible.
Regarding the new promotional footage, all I really have to say is What is it you want most?. GUHHHH. So far this is the frontrunner for the "You can still walk away" moment in AWE.
history geekery! Also, it's the 400 anniversary of the founding of Jamestown, in case anybody who doesn't live in the areaand hasn't been coveting the anniversary license plates for two years didn't realize. The official landing anniversary and kick-off of festivities is in two weeks (graduation weekend, actually). Yeah, the Commonwealth's going a little batshit over it (there is a map of VIRGINIA on the poster for MARYLAND Archaeology Month, for Christ's sake -- but never fear, Mary-land, we will catch up in '34) but it is still way cool. If you've never been to the Historic Triangle and feel like a road trip, this summer is the time to do it. I'm hoping we'll be able to get down there for at least a couple of days -- I never did get to see the new Visitor Center at Jamestown Rediscovery, or the new museum galleries at Settlement, and I would really like to actually do the Yorktown Battlefield drive without getting horrendously lost. Also, almost all the taverns were closed in January -- I want my Kings Arms ginger ale in the Kings Arms, dammit. I think Daddy wants to finally get to Monticello too, so hopefully it will be a history-filled summer.
Firstly, CoBP. Part of Will's character development in the film is how he takes Elizabeth down from the pedestal he has put her on throughout his youth. His utter belief in the reality of their social differences is evident in the "How many times must I ask you to call me Elizabeth?"/"At least once more, as always, Miss Swann." This Will is never going to make use of the opportune moment, because he will never believe his feelings for a woman so much higher on the social food chain are valid. It takes the shaking of his foundations -- that the law always does what is good and right, that people are what they're born and not what they make of themselves, that a pirate is a pirate is a pirate -- for him to be able to stand on equal footing with her. That process isn't complete until the end, but even so you can see the changes happening onscreen, particularly with how he interacts with Elizabeth.
One scene I'd like to cite is during the battle between the Pearl and the Interceptor, when Anamaria suggests offering Elizabeth as a hostage. She even holds a gun to her head, as Jack did in the dock scene. But Will doesn't go to the "You threatened Miss Swann! I keel you with my sword!" place at all; he just deals with the problem at hand. Granted, that's a lot of problem to deal with and distract him, but I still think it's a significant exchange. Elizabeth isn't the Governor's Daughter at that moment; she's just another member of the crew, a comrade in arms (who immediately understands what he means when he says "She's not what they're after," and there's no way he has any doubts over her intelligence and resourcefulness after this scene).
Near the end, when Will has made his peace with Jack being a pirate and a good man as well as with what that means for Will himself, there's no trace of supplication or awe (or arrogance) in his declaration of love. He just says it, because she ought to know no matter what happens, and does his thing. When Elizabeth finds her place standing beside him, there's this little sidelong considering glance he gives her, which is actually one of my favorite character moments and a really nice bit of acting from Orlando Bloom. He's not relieved she's declared her loyalty; he's not smug that she is taking her chances with him rather than Norrington. He merely seems to be thinking, "Okay. So this is where we stand -- together." Also, I think it's worth pointing out that once again Elizabeth has a weapon pointed at her -- lots of them, in fact -- and once again Will doesn't freak out over it like Swann does (but he's her daddy, that's to be understood).
To me, this is not a man who treats the woman he loves like a porcelain doll or any less capable of intelligent thought and physical bravery than a man would be. Their camaraderie in danger/action/battle is consistent in DMC as well; in fact Will doesn't seem the least bit surprised that Elizabeth has broken out of jail when he sees her abandoned dress, nor does he later make any mention of the danger she put herself in by doing so (yeah, she felt she had to when her father tried to ship her off to England, but Will doesn't know that). Later, in the beach fight scene, I actually sort of read Elizabeth jumping behind Will and him sticking out his arm (I think; Liz borrowed my DVD so I can't double-check it) the same way I read Jack and Will back to back at the end of CoBP: an expression of solidarity, not him trying to defend her (although I wouldn't blame him in that particular instance, because he's just taken the only weapon they have to share between them). And when he tells her to guard the chest -- there's no reason for him to think that this solidarity established between them has been broken, and notice that none of the other men pay attention to her protests either. It's Will taking Elizabeth for granted, but in the way you'd take somebody you trusted to watch your back for granted.
And before I forget to mention it -- he does bloody well teach her to fight with a sword. That sounds pretty enlightened to me. Taking the tangent of gender, it's not like Jack was raised by Amazons (we can reasonably assume); in all likelihood he comes from the same social structure as Will. Jack has more life experience in general and, we can assume by his acquaintance with Anamaria and Tia Dalma, more experience with women who defy the system -- but Will, being working class, may have a more egalitarian take on the sexes simply because he comes from a social strata in which women labor, even if it isn't the same as men. I mean more so than a man of Elizabeth's class, not more than Jack. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that to assume Jack doesn't judge Elizabeth based on her status as a woman is not to assume that Will does.
As for the slightly more valid angle that Will doesn't really understand Elizabeth, I would point out that Elizabeth doesn't understand Elizabeth at this point, and that's a primary impetus of the plot. It's completely unfair to assume that, once she does get who she is and how she feels about that sussed out, Will would try to make her into some other kind of woman. He might be disturbed and upset and confused, I'm not denying that, but there's no evidence in their prior interaction that would suggest he'd suppress her nature. I do think Elizabeth might be conflating her fears about what she'd give up in a society marriage with her impression of how a man would treat a wife, but it's still mostly about the bigger picture rather than Will's actual behavior toward her. The whole reflected self or whatever it was in Social Interaction -- her idea of what his idea of her may not match up with his actual idea of her. I don't think this is an insurmountable degree of miscommunication; could be that being on her own and/or around Jack has exacerbated the anxieties she wasn't fully aware of in Port Royal, so they really had no opportunity to discuss what they both want before the events of DMC. They may be young and they may be crossing signals -- especially since Will doesn't know the details of what happened in those last moments on the Pearl -- but that's no reason to think they are incapable of coming to an understanding. The commonality of Jack and Elizabeth's personalities simply means these connections are easier for Jack to make.
Um, I sort of lost my conclusion. I feel like I had several more point cooking, but they're gone now. I suppose my bottom line is that whatever you ship, A being true does not mean B is false. Just because Jack appears to respect Elizabeth and approve of her piratical nature -- even when its consequences are to his detriment -- doesn't mean Will will turn from her . And their screentime together -- Elizabeth's canon attraction to and feelings for Jack, her obvious discontent -- do not negate her feelings for Will. If you feel that Jack and Elizabeth work better together -- if their interaction and character dynamics ping you -- that's totally fine; but it does not mean that, canonically, Will and Elizabeth are incompatible.
Regarding the new promotional footage, all I really have to say is What is it you want most?. GUHHHH. So far this is the frontrunner for the "You can still walk away" moment in AWE.
history geekery! Also, it's the 400 anniversary of the founding of Jamestown, in case anybody who doesn't live in the area
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