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*deep breath* The Port Royal earthquake fic is a go (a-go? is that even a real phrase, or am I making it up?). I think I will wait until it's done before I start to post it. For one thing, I really want it to be a whole, not chapters, and for another, it'll be the ultimate test of willpower. I've only ever done that with ficathon entries.

I suspect this is going to be the only thing I'll be able to concentrate on until it's done, so the request ficlets might go on hold. Geez. That's really taking me longer than it should have.

BUT THE EARTHQUAKE ATE MY BRAIN.

Btw, can anybody tell me when babies generally start teething?

Mood::

curious

Music:: "all the ways i want you," jimmy buffett

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There are 20 comments on this entry. (Reply.)

Earthquake fic! Huzzah!

You must tell

watersword, BTW. She has a thing for Port Royal earthquake fics. :D

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Well, now you know :)

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Babies start teething around 6 months. Depending on the kid, some start as early as 4 months and it isn't unusual for a baby to still be toothless by 8 months. I'd say outside edges would be 2 months to one year, but those cases would be rare.

Aha, I knew the mamas would come through for me :) Does it have anything to do with weaning, or are they completely unrelated? Would it be plausible for a baby to still be nursing and begin teething (albeit unpleasant for poor Elizabeth)?

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Definitely plausible, and usually not unpleasant until top teeth come in. The tongue covers the bottom teeth when the baby is latched on so its harder to get nipped. But when it happens...there is usually lots of yelping on the mama's part. I nursed my youngest until she was 13 months and only got bit twice.

Most of Elizabeth's discomfort would most likely be in the first week or so as her milk comes in and nipples adjust to having the baby nursing often. It does promote some great bonding and endorphins though for the mom once its well established. But I'm not familiar with how breastfeeding was viewed/encouraged.

I hope that helps!

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It helps muchly! Thank you!

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how breastfeeding was veiwed at the time was as something of a necessity. But, like most things that showed humans to be a part of (as opposed to apart from) the animal kingdom the upper class tried to distance themselves from it. Most upper class women would employ a wet nurse, or if they could not afford it, go into seclusion for the length of nursing as well as for the later stages of pregnancy. Lower class women couldn't afford to care and often worked until they delivered and nursed their babies whenever, whereever. Nursing another woman's baby was a perfectly normal thing and working women would often share childcare with other nursing mothers or even hire themselves out as wet nurses for the hoity-toity types who could be bothered to do it themselves. At this point in history, in Jamaica, I would guess that the upper class women probably used slaves as their wet nurses.

Wow!
Now there's a fic I'd like to see.
Something along the lines of Governor Swann, or someone else presenting the newly delivered Elizabeth with a nursing slave who reminds her of Anamaria. I find it interesting that so few writers have dealt with the very timely issue of slavery in the caribbean at the time. Most women of Elizabeth's class probably never even thought about the subject, it would just be a part of the way things are. But Elizabeth has met pirates who use to be slaves. people who probably felt free to tell share their views on the subject if she ever took the time to talk to them.
I may see if this bunny can be squeezed into my polyfic assingment, but anyone else, feel free to run away with the idea too.

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couldn't be bothered to do it themselves.

Jeesh! Why can't we edit comments?

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Great to learn more about it. I had a feeling it was similar to what you described. Some of the views haven't evolved much since then *sigh*

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Ooooh. Now THAT'S a thought. It's the governor's plantation, and no matter how progressive I'd like to make him, it's just not conceivable that there wouldn't be slaves, however well-treated, around.

The way I wank Elizabeth nursing is thusly -- if she's marrying a damn blacksmith and getting away with it, who's going to dare tell her how to raise her kid? :)

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If she married the damn blacksmith, she would probably have to nurse her own baby. Without outside influence, it is very unlikely that she could afford a wet nurse.

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Weaning and teething are only related in modern day society where nursing is so frequently looked down upon in general and mothers have a problem with the idea of consistanly teaching their children anything. I nursed my daughter for two and a half years and never had any problems with biting. The few times she tried it when she first got her teeth were rewarded with being pulled immediately off the breast. She stopped very quickly.

At that point in history, if Elizabeth was nursing her child at all rather than using a wet nurse (which she might have done had she married James, but not likely if she married Will) she would definately still be nursing while her baby was teething. Most children were nursed until they were well established on solid food, ie. when their molars grew in at two. There was no such thing as formula, and while it is possible to raise an infant on animal milk - goat is far better than cow for this - the children were noticibly less healthy and vivacious than those raised on human milk so in the case of a mother who could not nurse, whether from death, ilness, or social standing, the child was usally nursed by another woman rather than being given animal milk. Only in the most desparate circumstances would most women consider weaning their child early.

I will stop there on account of being at work with piles of stuff still to do before leaving for Sail into the Sunset tomorrow night. *grin*

See above comment for more info about sore nipples. If you want other interesting info about the joys or terrors of breast feeding, try me tonight.

(Did I mantion that my mother is a lactation consultant?)

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Wooot, that is exactly the sort of stuff I was looking for -- most of what I found was from a modern viewpoint.

No rush, of course, but when you've got a moment -- it's true that if one is breastfeeding, it's difficult to go too long without it, right? If Elizabeth happened to be away from the baby for seven or eight hours, how would her breasts feel (and would the baby of nine months be okay to go that long without milk?)?

And this may require more historical research or a little_details post, but I'll ask just in case. If both mother and child were ill, would a physician be likely to keep the child from nursing or would he allow it?

Thank you SO MUCH for the help (and have fun at SitS :)

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The answer to your first question depends on how exclusively you are breastfeeding. the supply of milk is determined by the rate of demand. If you are exclusively breastfeeding your baby and the kid eats every two hours, seven or eight hours would leave you with hugely swollen and very painful breasts. If the baby is nine months old, he or she is probably eating a little bit of other foods, mashed veggies, pate meats, chewing on dry toasts, and therefore nursing less frequently and at decreased volume. Seven or eight hours might be doable, though probably still uncomfortable by that point. If it is a common occurrance that the child doesn't nurse for those hours every day, like at night, the mother's breasts would adjust and only produce milk at the appointed times. A child of nine months could go seven or eight hours without nursing without ill effect. He or she might not even get too grumpy as long as provided with alternative foods like those mentioned above. Of course, lots of kids I've known have gotten afully mad if denied that time with Mamma, to the point where they may refuse the other food that is offered, even if it is food they are accoustomed to eating along with the nursing. Nine months is an age when lots of kids are weaned in modern culture. Again, due to the teeth thing.

I hesitate to say what a seventeenth or eithteenth century doctor would prescribe, but nowadays that would really depend on what type of illness they had. If you are talking a bit of a cold, the mother should absolutely continue nursing. If the mother has a horrible fever (a likelyhood in those days) the doctor would most likely order the child given to a wet nurse. Depending on the length of the illlness, this would likely result in the mother losing her milk. Even if the fever itself didn't dry it up, going for several days without nursing would. In corrallary to this, an abrubt cessation of nursing could bring on a fever by causing mastitis. If mastitis occurs while a woman is still nursing, the best thing she can do is to keep nursing the baby as often as possible from the affected breast while applying hot compresses to the area, and I could see a contemprary midwife, experienced matronly servant or medicine woman type giving Elizabeth this advice, but a naval sugeon might be really stupid about that kind of thing. An illness that could be affecting both mother and child could be thrush: an overgroth of yeast in the baby's mouth which could also spread to the mother's nipples and cause severe cracking and bleeding and just plain nastiness. I have no idea how this would have been diagnosed or treated by the medical esablishment of the time. The only thing I can think of that would have been availble to treat it would be application of plain yogurt. This could proably be done by feeding it to the child and spreading it on the mother's nipple. The affected nipple should be left bare and dry as often as possible. If only one nipple is affected, nursing should be limited to the other side as much as possible and only once the baby is being treated.

I'm sure there is much more that could be found with propper research, this is just off the top of my head.

Good luck (I can't wait to read this fic)!

and have fun at SitS Thank you. I think I would have to try really hard not to. *so excited*

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I'm excited about SitS too :)

And all this talk of nursing is making me miss that phase. I just loved breastfeeding my girls and was fortunate to have good support around me.

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Is it creepy to say that pregnancy and early childcare fascinates me? I get kids; I don't understand babies as yet. Plus there's the whole ticking clock thing. I swear, when I was younger I was all set on not having kids till I was thirty, and now I'm like, "How's tomorrow sound? Is tomorrow good?"

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You know its bad when you see a cute baby and can swear its making you ovulate.

Its good that you are so interested, you'll learn more and be more comfortable with it. I've known many women who go through pregnancy with their heads stuck in the proverbial sand and then are confused as to what happens next.

That said I KNOW I'm done with the two I've got, I'm healthy, they are healthy and our family feels complete. That and the youngest is starting to potty train so I see the light at the end of the tunnel *lol*

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*Mr. Burns voice* Excellent. The first bit works the way I hoped it would. As for the second, she becomes ill by drinking contaminated water (I don't know if I've got a specific disease yet, I'll have to check my Port Royal notes to see if they offer one; if not the generic fever should be good enough for 1692) and passing it on to the baby -- which plot point I may have to really gloss over and bend accuracy as best I can and hope nobody notices, because I need it all to happen really fast. And I'll just stop broadcasting the whole damn PLOT now, shall I?

Take lots of pictures!

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she gets ill by drinking contaminated water

Dysintery.
She would not be able to pass it on directly to the child, but at eight or nine months old, he could have been drinking the same water as she was.
Another period and location appropriate illness that is water related, but not from drinking it, would be Yellow Fever. Again, not something to be passed through breast milk, but it is possible for the baby to contract it at the same time or soon after.

I am very intrigued by the plot you have "given away" so far. And the slave wet nurse bunny I had above has forced it's way into the novel length story I have been ~~mostly not~~ writing for the past year. Maybe this will kick start the muse enough to finish the damn thing.

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Space Shuttle

That's it. I hate not remembering where I've stolen stuff from.

So if the kid is, say, nine months old, still nursing, beginning to teethe, and saying "Dada" for the first time, this would not be unusual?

You guys are so much more helpful than Google.

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January