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posted by [personal profile] the_dala at 10:35pm on 12/07/2006 under
Elizabeth is up, and I'm afraid my thoughts are a bit more disjointed, because I love the girl but she spins me around in circles.

Elizabeth Swann

When I first saw the trailer for DMC, I thought the shots of Elizabeth in her yellow dress in the rain were heart-stoppingly beautiful. I also thought she was sitting in a graveyard (at Weatherby's grave, to be precise, so I am doubly glad to see he's made it through more or less intact). When the lights went down, these shots were in the opening sequence and that was her wedding dress as I'd thought -- yet there was clearly no grave. But the visual mourning metaphor still fits, and bookends neatly with Elizabeth at the end of the movie, when she truly is in mourning.

In the first film, it was established that both Elizabeth and Will, despite their altruistic qualities (Elizabeth does negotiate with Barbossa to leave Port Royal alone, after all) are ruthless in their desire to protect one another. The difference is that Elizabeth is better at it. Will tries to manipulate Jack and Barbossa, and both plans fail. Elizabeth learns from her own failed attempt to deal with Barbossa, and then goes for two easier targets: the man who loves her and wants to believe she loves him in return, and a rum-soaked, wobbly-legged, eventually slumbering Jack. Elizabeth? Is good at piracy. What's more, she knows it (and so does Jack, but that's for another entry). I've seen the complaint that the whole 'No, he's a pirate' line indicates how little Elizabeth has learned during the course of the first movie, but I disagree. She got a real taste of pirates during her time with Barbossa and his crew, and if she still retained all her romantic notions she wouldn't try to deny and fight her own nature.

Piracy both intrigues and frightens Elizabeth, and so does the idea of marriage. In the expression on her face in that first scene and the rain mussing her bridal gown, I see her fear over marrying Will -- the fear of losing what little freedom she has, the fear of losing herself, the fear of failing him. In her line 'I thought I'd be married by now...I was so ready to be married' (or is it 'I'm so ready to be married'? I can't tell, but it doesn't really change the meaning of the line...) I see her hope that marriage will dampen down her darker urges. Notice that she doesn't mention his name, just the state of being married. Loving Will isn't ever really the issue; it's what she is willing to risk or give up for that love.

Elizabeth is torn between freedoms and confinements. Marrying Will frees her from the temptations of her darker side-- maybe -- but confines her to a life at his side, a life whose twists and turns she's really just as unsure about as those of piracy.(1) This is also ironic because her love for Will is exactly what has brought out her darker side in the past. In this movie, she seems to be exploring a bit on her own, not merely reacting on behalf of Will's safety.

Now, indulging those darker urges offers freedom, the freedom which Jack embodies and to which the compass is drawn (I think Jack's speech about the Pearl and freedom in CoBP pretty well cements Jack=freedom in her mind; the connection is never once played as simple physical attraction, even though the stupider of the critics seem to interpret it so). However, the consequences of those choices -- that's where the confinement is there, as inevitable as the confinement she fears in marriage.

Jack lies and omits the truth and tells it when he knows no one will see it as such, but Elizabeth hardly ever speaks without not saying what she means. I hear all of the above uncertainties and fears beneath the line about being ready for marriage, and I hear guilt for her own role in the business under 'James Norrington, what has the world done to you?', and I hear disappointment when she praises Jack for respecting her honor. Perhaps most importantly, beneath 'I'm not sorry,' I hear 'I can't allow myself to be sorry, because if I question the choice I've finally made, I won't be able to live in my own skin.' Elizabeth's extraordinary bravery and self-assurance go hand-in-hand with her cowardice and doubt regarding her own path.

I love -- love -- the complexity of this character, and Keira's performance was endlessly satisfying. There's the great comic acting at the beginning of the threesome swordfight, and there's the longing and desperation and urgency of her kissing Jack, and then there's my favorite -- the scene at Tia Dalma's where what she has done is tearing her up inside, despite how she's been trying to deny it. The sheer physical pain on Keira's face during that scene, and her eyes when she says 'Yes' instead of 'Aye' -- I enjoyed her immensely in CoBP, but she had completely blown me away come the end credits of DMC.



(1) One of the fics I reeeeeally want to write is Elizabeth insisting on getting married after killing Jack (and Will giving in because -- because god, he's Will and she's Elizabeth and there is absolutely nothing the boy can do to change that). Problem is I don't know how to get the deed done -- first I thought Will could marry them because he'd be voted captain in Jack's stead (and he would be, he so would be), but then I remembered they don't have a ship, and anyway I don't think it's possible before that scene in Tia Dalma's. But then that leaves me with Barbossa, and I just don't know if Elizabeth could bring herself to do it. Ah well. Maybe they could get Tia Dalma to do it, or maybe a new crew member was once a pastor. I'll figure it out, because I want Elizabeth to throw herself into marriage in an attempt to dissociate herself from 'Pirate.'

Again, more to come in the character interaction sections, after James and the villains get their turn


Meg would like me to add this: "Megan strongly disagrees to what I am typing, even though she has no idea what my analysis contains. What a surly, contrary bitch." Her words, not mine.
Mood:: 'contemplative' contemplative
There are 26 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
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posted by [identity profile] the-dala.livejournal.com at 09:42pm on 13/07/2006
Thank you, darling :)
 
posted by [identity profile] veronica-rich.livejournal.com at 03:36am on 13/07/2006
I read one good analysis, and I agree with parts of it. Then I'll read another and think "Hmm, that has some points, too," even if it disagrees with what I've already read. Argh, now I have to digest all this and see if I can concede any of your points about Liz. *G*
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posted by [identity profile] the-dala.livejournal.com at 09:43pm on 13/07/2006
This is why I'm hiding until I finish my own thoughts -- I can rearrange them later :)
 
posted by [identity profile] sinister-beauty.livejournal.com at 07:37am on 13/07/2006
Hmm...I think that Gibbs for some reason would have the authority to do it. Most naval men are given that opportunity at one point or another...I think? And even if not, Gibbs marrying Will and Liz would be so cute.

And captain!Will; Captain Turner. Oooh. I'll be in my bunk.
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posted by [identity profile] the-dala.livejournal.com at 09:44pm on 13/07/2006
Rrrowr. I see Will refusing at first, but they take a vote and the ayes have it...

I was also thinking Cotton, but I'm iffy on how he would be able to explain himself.
 
posted by [identity profile] sinister-beauty.livejournal.com at 10:26pm on 13/07/2006
Yeah, um Cotton couldn't give orders too well. However, as first mate, wouldn't Gibbs be next in line to be Captain?...Then again, that was on the Pearl, which is, well, eated. So, yeah. Captain Turner has a very sexy ring to it.
 
posted by [identity profile] elessil.livejournal.com at 12:53pm on 13/07/2006
Very interesting thoughts, and they made a lot of sense to me. To me, Elizabeth was a lot more interesting in DMC than in part 1.
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posted by [identity profile] the-dala.livejournal.com at 09:44pm on 13/07/2006
I liked how the first film focused on Will's growth and the second on Elizabeth's.
 
posted by [identity profile] hafital.livejournal.com at 05:39pm on 13/07/2006
Thank you for this. I am a quiet observer of PotC fandom and a very big fan of the movies. It's so wonderful to see such great commentary on Elizabeth, who is easily, for me, the more complex and intricate of the characters.
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posted by [identity profile] the-dala.livejournal.com at 09:46pm on 13/07/2006
Thank you very much :) And your icon is beautiful.
 
posted by [identity profile] crasi.livejournal.com at 04:00am on 14/07/2006
Interesting commentary. I confess that I didn't connect the beginning and ending scenes of mourning together, but they're clear now.
I think the men in her life indicates where Elizabeth is at. Norrington followed the rules of the law, and desperately wants to enforce it again. Will broke the law but followed an honor code. Jack does whatever benefits him, and rules are hassles that he ignores. At the end, Elizabeth is caught between Will and Jack. Caught between honor and desire. Perhaps she can redemn her honor before she losses it and Will forever.
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posted by [identity profile] the-dala.livejournal.com at 02:30am on 15/07/2006
That's an interesting observation -- I like!
 
posted by (anonymous) at 11:53pm on 05/08/2006
The writers of PotC actually say that they hate putting bookends into their scripts so much so that in their 4 rules of script writing they mention it twice:
1. No book ends
2. No book ends
3. Never Kill the dog
4. Always save the Kiss till last.
5. (to the audience) feel free to disagree with what we choose to do.

.......you sure thats what they really meant with the begining and ending scenes?

I feel it may have been suggesting how Liz feels about married life..which is pretty much not a future she really wants.

I could be wrong though.

 
posted by (anonymous) at 12:16am on 06/08/2006
She loves William..

but she is IN LOVE with jack.. By the end of movie 2 she realizes this and all her denial and fear of her feelings for him bubble up to a climax.. So much so that jack becomes a DANGEROUS possibility to her. So she removes the threat by chaining him up.

The first Kiss was halted for a reason peeps. It was halted so that things could only get worse in Liz's mind when it came to Jack. Had she got the kiss on the deck earlier the ending WOULD NOT have happened the way it did. Disney needed to add in that disruption so Liz’s over the top actions in the end could be justified.

And this brings up the whole Tia and stolen “Barbossa ring” theory of mine but its sooooo long that I cant be bothered to get into it lol.

Basically I feel Tia is using her knowledge of the characters feelings for each other, her knowledge of the future and her voodoo magic to create the Will/Davy destiny

.,…why you say? Well in my opinion it is to GET DAVY BACK FOR GOOD…I think she is his Calypso…if Tia thinks she can make Will the new captain of the flying Dutchman by cutting his heart out…then Davy can be free to return to her for good….

I mean COME ON. She had INK all round her mouth and teeth.. Davy = Octopus = INK remember? Lol Davy probably doesn’t know that she is his lost Calypso..just yet…

Still just a theory of mine. Could be wrong

 
posted by [identity profile] schmoo999.livejournal.com at 01:42pm on 15/07/2006
I am via [livejournal.com profile] fabu's link. I love your analysis of Elizabeth and found myself nodding in agreement with most of what you said. I think Elizabeth wants to try and live in the limitations of her station and place that she was raised to take up but wants the freedom...the whole "I Was So Ready To Be Married" thing I took that she knows that is the proper way for a young lady in her world to have sex...that she wants it and now but can't completely let herself go...though now in the next movie...she has and will take those steps to being completely pirate? in her quest to save Jack.

I think she loves Will...not a passionate I will kill myself if we ever go our separate ways love...but like Jack she loves freedom more:)

or so runs through my mind on this Saturday morning...
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posted by [identity profile] the-dala.livejournal.com at 01:32am on 16/07/2006
I don't disagree that Elizabeth might love freedom best of all -- I just think she's struggling to see freedom in connection to Will, and her love for him, where it's perfectly obvious in the context of Jack.

Thnk you for the thoughts :)
 
posted by (anonymous) at 10:40am on 06/08/2006
Yes I agree. She is very much in love with the lifestyle but that can lead to being in love with the man who represents it best. Jack. I personally believe that he is everything she wants to be. People who obsess over someone (Like Liz does with Jack) tend to fall in love with their obsession.

Also did you notice the whole hat thing in movie 2? Jack loses his beloved hat and is in a great sense of confusion as to what he really wants and then Liz appears dressed very similar to him but sporting a hat that looks remarkably like his lost one. It’s also not the same hat she was wearing on the ship to hide from the men. Her first hat was a straw hat. This new hat appears out of nowhere and there is no explanation as to why she has it on as soon as she meets Jack. It stands out a lot when ever she is around Jack.

Its very interesting when Just before he meets her there is that whole scene in Tortuga where he is trying on lots of different hats and is unsatisfied. He leaves with nothing. Then hello hello Liz appears basically wearing his hat.

It’s almost as if it’s hinting that SHE is the missing part of Jack. She is what he needs to feel complete as a man. His confusion settles once she appears I notice.

What I also find funny. Is that he gets it back as soon as Liz comes down to his level at the end. That’s the only part in the movie where she's not wearing it when around him. (basically symbolizing that he has won her emotions over. She’s afraid that she loves him.) Then he gets it back as soon as he has her where he wants her lol. Meaning he has found the missing part of himself in Liz possibly?
 
posted by [identity profile] linaerys.livejournal.com at 04:19pm on 17/07/2006
One of the fics I reeeeeally want to write is Elizabeth insisting on getting married after killing Jack (and Will giving in because -- because god, he's Will and she's Elizabeth and there is absolutely nothing the boy can do to change that).

I too, also had this idea, and I want Barbossa to marry them. He's a captain too, after all.
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posted by [identity profile] the-dala.livejournal.com at 02:42pm on 18/07/2006
Man, how fucked up is that Elizabeth would ask him? And she totally would too. I love it.
 
posted by (anonymous) at 11:21pm on 05/08/2006
I actually feel that she chained him up because throughout the entire movie her feelings for him were growing but she wasn’t ready to accept them yet the compass is what put her off and she begins to fear her feelings. There's a moment in the movie where Jack suggests sex to her. She pretends to be disgusted, stomps off. Only seconds later the camera reveals that she is secretly SMILING at what Jack had just suggested. I certainly feel that she has suppressed feelings for him but she came to realize them WAY too soon and she couldn't handle it. So in the end she simply removes the temptation of Jack. By that point, he had come back to her and it was THAT POINT where she realized he IS what she wants. He has portrayed both qualities she loves. The pirate side and the honorable side...Will only satisfies one of her needs. SHE is not ready to accept this... she "removes the problem" and in turn forces herself to be with Will. Even if it’s not what she REALLY wants. That was the selfish deed. It wasn’t to save Will or the others. It was to save herself from the CHOICE she would have to make later on over Jack or Will and believe me THERE WILL BE A CHOICE in the next movie. The director has said that there is a Will/Davy love story similarity to unfold. It’s already started in movie 2. Will is going to try and cut his heart out after the loss of Liz I think but his dear old dad will step in and take the brunt of the pain so that Will can be free…he’s done it twice already in movie 2..its going to echo later.
 
posted by (anonymous) at 11:41pm on 05/08/2006
Yes..the KNIFE was introduced for a REASON ladies and gentlemen..and there is a reason why Will is playing with it at the end whilst angrily pondering over what he has just seen liz do..Its going to echo something that happens later..it raises the question

"what is will going to DO with that knife if things only get worse between him and Liz?"
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posted by [identity profile] the-dala.livejournal.com at 12:12am on 06/08/2006
Interesting notion about Jack having both piratical and honourable qualities, but I definitely think Will and Elizabeth are ultimately going to end up together (if I had my way, sailing with Jack on the Pearl). Also, I suspect the third film will bring out Will's ruthless side more, because he does have one...
 
posted by (anonymous) at 12:31am on 06/08/2006

Yes I agree with you on the whole Will's ruthless side coming out. Jack said it best himself in movie 1:

something along the lines of:

"you can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest...Its the HONEST ones you need to watch out for. You can never predict when they are going to do something incredibly STUPID"

never trust the most honest character. Will is going to do something really stupid and bad in the next movie. He might not be the loveable character everyone likes towards the end..

I don’t actually agree with the Will/Liz pairing. Mainly because this Will/Davy destiny thing the director is leaning towards and has actually said it’s going to be a main theme in the next movie. We all know what Davy did over the loss of his uncontrollable fiancé (sea Goddess Calypso)...the only way that can be triggered off is if Liz chooses Jack over Will. There are so many clues that this is going to happen but I feel his father will save Will before he des something really silly..He saved will twice from a doomed destiny in the most recent movie. Disney added that in because its going to be repeated later on a much larger scale.....

Liz isn’t not going to want the married life with Will in my opinion. There are too many hints and clues suggesting that she’s already running away from marriage.
 
posted by (anonymous) at 12:51am on 06/08/2006

"Divine Intervention"

Two words that I feel are MAJORLY overlooked by audiences when Ragetti mentions them.

think about it :D

TIA.. is playing EVERYONE. She's playing Jack, Liz, Will, Norringon, Beckett and Davy.. Trust me..go back and study every crucial twist and decision in the movie..Tia can be linked back to EVERYTHING!

I feel that Tia is the sea goddess Calypso in disguise and Davy Jones’s Fiancé who ran away (yes there is a whole calypso theme in the next movie)...She is divinity who is intervening to make things play out how SHE wants them to...for her own personal gain..
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posted by [identity profile] the-dala.livejournal.com at 01:49am on 06/08/2006
I'm enjoying reading your thoughts on the movie, but I'm avoiding spoilers for AWE and would like to keep my LJ spoiler-free as well, so please don't post anything other than fannish speculation about the next film! :)

Tia Dalma as divine...interesting!
 
posted by (anonymous) at 10:25am on 06/08/2006
AHH!! sorry. I will keep my mouth firmly shut about the possibl spoilers. Feel free to delete my other posts :)

Once again. I apologize.

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